tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post22247482389535213..comments2023-07-14T05:48:49.198-04:00Comments on Health in Recovery : AA Success RateHealthInRecoveryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16566605493842063017noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-19441553645177871192012-07-31T05:51:23.800-04:002012-07-31T05:51:23.800-04:00I beg to differ. A fair amount of decent scientifi...I beg to differ. A fair amount of decent scientific work has now been done converging on 40-50% sobritty rates at one and two years or regular attendannce (summarized in a series of articles by John Kelly, who runs the Harvard Medical School addiction centre). Two longterm outcome studies have been done that give very clear 60% ish sobriety rates at 16 yrs and lifetime .. but the samples ae small. The Big Book af alcoholics anonymous claims that anyone withough a co-morbid psychiatric conddition will stay sober if they keep working the program thoroughly. In my experience this is true - but it is impossible to give any scientific story about working the program thoroughly. A daily routine of meditation, prayer if your are relgious, working on personal inventory and so on is required. People always seem to slack off before they relapse. No scientific studies have been done to measure doing the twelve steps and recovery... I hope one will be done soon ... but no plans are yet definite ...GABEShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02456562527629416836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-85415064185825914982012-07-31T00:12:06.054-04:002012-07-31T00:12:06.054-04:00AA and NA can't get that sort of baseline data...AA and NA can't get that sort of baseline data because the data don't exist. AA is not organized and does not collect member data, when it has (in the past) attempted to collect survey data it is not clear how accurate even that is. As an MD researcher, I can tell you that the sort of research I do on drug efficacy just can't be done with AA and alcoholism. First, AA is not prescribed. There is no way to give a "placebo" AA. Many who go to AA go on their own, through the courts, and some through a physician or medical referral. Second, many who go to an AA meeting go only once and never go again - it is dubious to say that they've "tried" AA and it didn't work. In a research study we assign patients to treatment arms and would ascribe as a failure anyone who assigned to the arm who didn't succeed (ie failed to get sober) and success anyone who did - whether or not they even ever took the drug in order to maintain statistical purity. <br /><br />Further, it is silly to say that there have been no advances in either alcohol research or treatment. Combining intensive outpatient therapy with AA has a 30-40% success rate in the first year (tracking was not done beyond this). The fact that there is no miracle treatment at this point doesn't mean that people are resting on their laurels with what exists now.Bill Walshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09436238770300755644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-43954501716345479852012-04-11T08:34:09.517-04:002012-04-11T08:34:09.517-04:00Here is the problem, why can't A.A. and N.A. s...Here is the problem, why can't A.A. and N.A. start with an objective basic baseline analysis? I believe it is because the numbers do not lie and are not good for new members to be shown...hence a loss of hope. If you started with an annual survey (a snapshot in time) of members in various stages of recovery in a 12 month time period then you would have a good statistical baseline. Let's say there are 100 people in month 1, 75 in month 2, 50 in month 3, 40 in month 4, and so on and so on...until you get to a year (which would be roughly 5%-8% success rate after one year). This would give an Honest statistical number that can be measured year after year without bias. I believe why this is not done is that these organizations want to hide these facts instead of embracing the truth and adjust their approach to get better results. Isn't this how Medical Doctors do an analysis if medications work (ie...cancer)? If addiction is a disease...shouldn't it be treated as such? And if cancer success rates were stuck at 5%-8% wouldn't cancer dr.'s, patients and their families demand better more useful treatments and/or try new approaches or experimental medicine? Stop the madness of stating that it is impossible to count recovery success rates, it is possible...just start being objective with a baseline analysis and make adjustments to the approach of recovery of addiction instead of saying this way is the only way and try to bend an analysis to fit your belief. Shouldn't we be looking for increased success rates? Or do we stick with the status quo...No change in approach...that doesn't work for science or medicine...why do we accept this for addiction?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03054344146073648371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-48571530228653788442012-04-03T01:38:02.707-04:002012-04-03T01:38:02.707-04:00The more we learn about early Akron A.A. and its C...The more we learn about early Akron A.A. and its Christian Fellowship founded in 1935, the easier it is to understand why the success rate was so high and the documentation so clear. Much more information has become available with the publication of the earliest group of AA of Akron pamphlets, the interview of Dr. Bob in 1939, the last major address by Bob in 1948, and Bob's remarks on the stage with Bill Wilson at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles. Also with the publication of Bill's autobiography, the When Love is Not Enough biography of Lois, and the biography of Dr. Silkworth. To combine these with other conference approved literature is to round out a picture of Christians meeting daily, Christians in fellowship together, Christians studying the Bible and praying together, Christians bringing others to Christ, Christians breaking bread together, witnessing together and converting others together. There lies a success formula that goes back to the Book of Acts. It is a parallel that Bill, Lois, Bob, the Rockefeller people, and Dr. Silkworth confirmed. To go further into the changing days after 1939 and certainly after Dr. Bob's death is to move into the field of undocumented and undocumentable speculation. Good article above. I enjoyed it and the comments. www.ChristianRecoveryCoalition.com.<br />Dick B. dickb@dickb.comDick B.'s son Ken B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15849845661502523671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-19076656681064434952012-03-18T16:42:13.336-04:002012-03-18T16:42:13.336-04:00A well deserved set of comments on A.A. success to...A well deserved set of comments on A.A. success today and the difficulty of measuring it. Early A.A. had rosters. Early AAs had address books. Early AAs knew each other personally, fellowshipped together daily, broke bread together daily, visited newcomers daily, believed in God, accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, studied the Bible together, prayed together, had quiet time together. All of this daily. And certainly coupled with vigorous "12th Stepping" before there were any Steps--just witnessing. In November, 1937, forty had maintained sobriety; half had done so continuously; another quarter had relapsed and returned to succeed. And Dr. Bob wrote a memo in his own hand naming the successes and dates. Not even remotely similar to A.A. today. www.dickb.com/cured.shtmlDick B.'s son Ken B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15849845661502523671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-89504067243299468282011-04-21T16:11:48.944-04:002011-04-21T16:11:48.944-04:00Thanks, Shawn. I'm so with you on this! Will...Thanks, Shawn. I'm so with you on this! Will check out your site too. Be well!HealthInRecoveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16566605493842063017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1677075243037040472.post-50385980251760170912011-04-15T13:39:03.073-04:002011-04-15T13:39:03.073-04:00I agree that AA has done so much for so many peopl...I agree that AA has done so much for so many people. I also agree that to put a percentage on the success rate is impossible - so many people try AA that don't really want to give a 100% effort.<br /><br />However, AA's success would be even better if it embraced it's co-founder's opinion regarding the nutritional needs of an alcoholic. In Bill Wilson's later years, he was very involved in this, especially the supplement vitamin B3 (also know as Niacin). In a personal study of his own, he found that this nutrient did wonders to reduce the "physical" craving for alcohol.<br /><br />The mind is wonderful and can do many things - but by itself, it cannot overcome a physical craving. Removing the mental obsession for alcohol is critical in recovery - but I have learned from experience that I had to also address my body's biochemistry to truly enjoy sobriety.<br /><br />Thanks for a very good article!<br /><br />http://howtostopalcoholism.com/Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14214942296180109550noreply@blogger.com